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#1559427 - 10/15/08 10:41 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Chode2235]
fishgutz77 Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 599
Loc: Monticello, Mn
About half way throught the debate tonight a thought crossed my already worn out brain from all of this so here goes:

What if instead of and economic crash a couple of weeks ago we had taken the 911 hit in New York, just a couple of weeks ago who would I be voting for then?

who would have the expierence and resolve to deal with this best?

The only reason this is important is because I do believe we will be hit again in the next four years reguardless of who is the president. and we will have to deal with Nuclear proliferation with Iran or others.
_________________________
Fish Hard! go home stink'in and wet. Does it get any better.

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#1559440 - 10/15/08 10:47 PM Last 2008 Presidential Debate [Re: fishgutz77]
Big Tom Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 645
Loc: Elk River
I agree with you on your points Gutz. It's the second reason I will cast third party. McCain would have had my vote 8 years ago. At his age and condition, I can't see Governor Palin as a good option.

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#1559442 - 10/15/08 10:47 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: fishgutz77]
Loos15 Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Bloomington, MN
Interesting that you live in that fear. To me, that's exactly serving into what the terrorists want. We must be vigilent, but we must not be so afraid that we sacrifice our freedoms. That's what these terrorists wants. That's the point of terror. I hate the bring this back up again, but Lincoln didn't have the "expereince" to bring back the unity of the Union, but he did. Who has the ability should be the question. But we will disagree on that one.

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#1559506 - 10/16/08 12:30 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Loos15]
nofishfisherman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 2426
Loc: Twin Cities
Here is my take on the debate. Not that anyone really cares what I think but I like to tell you all anyways for some reason.

McCain spoke all night about what he wanted to do- fund programs for special needs children, give everyone $5000 for health care, fund "no child left behind", off shore drilling, invest in alternative energy, etc... He never said how he would pay for all of this to start with and now he claims to be putting a freeze on all spending for what was it 1 or 2 years? How is that going to work. He promises to do all of this without spending any money?

He kept criticizing Obama for saying he wants to throw money at the problem but McCain followed it up every time with a rebuttle of what he is going to spend money on. He just kept double talking all night.

Even if McCain has a great idea he has thus far be unable to put a coherent plan together and deliver it to the American public. His arguements are eratic and disorganized. He might have the right answer but I can't tell by his arguements.

Tell me, where is the $5000 coming from that he is going to give everyone for health care? He is freezing all spending so when do we get that money? Why is he going to give us free money but then tax our health benefits at the same time? He's giving with one hand and taking it back with the other. How does that solve the problem? Its just not logical.

McCain did have some more fight tonight but did any one else think he looked unhealthy? Several people I talked with both Dems and Reps. mentioned it. Is the campaign getting to him or is he fighting an illness? His age and health worry me. Palin is not ready to lead this coutnry in war if needed. If the campaign doesn't trust her to do any more interviews how can we trust her to lead our country through economic crisis and a war on two fronts?

McCain gave it his all tonight but I think Obama stood up and dedended himself perfectly and in the end made a much stronger argument for how he will address health care, energy independence, the economic crisis, and education.
_________________________
"I want to share something with you: The three little sentences that will get you through life. Number 1: Cover for me. Number 2: Oh, good idea, Boss! Number 3: It was like that when I got here."

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#1559515 - 10/16/08 01:00 AM Re: I guess the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: nofishfisherman]
croixflats Online   content
Sr IceLeaders Family

Registered: 04/27/08
Posts: 1359
Loc: Lake St.Croix Beach Minnesota
You noticed the double talk also.
That $5000 tax credit is for families and if you are single its $2500 and it goes to the insurance companies and you are left paying the tax. From my understanding any procedure you have you will be responsible for the tax. I may be wrong on that but can you imagine the tax on a major operation like say heart surgery or even a small procedure like $10000 one he has not said how much the tax will be.
I thought McCain did pretty well tonight except for the joe the plumber thing and his blatant misreprestation of Obama's stance on issues. And his futile attempts at trying to link Obama to Ayers and ACORN he is grasping at straws and he keeps grabbing the bottom one.
_________________________
My batteryless fish finder, and its 4 paw drive

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#1559520 - 10/16/08 01:10 AM Re: I guess the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Loos15]
croixflats Online   content
Sr IceLeaders Family

Registered: 04/27/08
Posts: 1359
Loc: Lake St.Croix Beach Minnesota
The terrorist have won. They succeeded in having people run for cover for fear of another attack. And they also succeeded by planting the seed of 9/11 and just sit back and watch the Americans ruin our own economy. And now we have a guy who thinks in similar ways of the current administration running for president. Ya think those terrorist have a big smile on their faces right now.
_________________________
My batteryless fish finder, and its 4 paw drive

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#1559553 - 10/16/08 06:55 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: nofishfisherman]
Uncle Bill Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 987
Loc: Rock Crick
Originally Posted By: nofishfisherman
Here is my take on the debate. Not that anyone really cares what I think but I like to tell you all anyways for some reason.

McCain spoke all night about what he wanted to do- fund programs for special needs children, give everyone $5000 for health care, fund "no child left behind", off shore drilling, invest in alternative energy, etc... He never said how he would pay for all of this to start with and now he claims to be putting a freeze on all spending for what was it 1 or 2 years? How is that going to work. He promises to do all of this without spending any money?

He kept criticizing Obama for saying he wants to throw money at the problem but McCain followed it up every time with a rebuttle of what he is going to spend money on. He just kept double talking all night.

Even if McCain has a great idea he has thus far be unable to put a coherent plan together and deliver it to the American public. His arguements are eratic and disorganized. He might have the right answer but I can't tell by his arguements.

Tell me, where is the $5000 coming from that he is going to give everyone for health care? He is freezing all spending so when do we get that money? Why is he going to give us free money but then tax our health benefits at the same time? He's giving with one hand and taking it back with the other. How does that solve the problem? Its just not logical.

McCain did have some more fight tonight but did any one else think he looked unhealthy? Several people I talked with both Dems and Reps. mentioned it. Is the campaign getting to him or is he fighting an illness? His age and health worry me. Palin is not ready to lead this coutnry in war if needed. If the campaign doesn't trust her to do any more interviews how can we trust her to lead our country through economic crisis and a war on two fronts?

McCain gave it his all tonight but I think Obama stood up and dedended himself perfectly and in the end made a much stronger argument for how he will address health care, energy independence, the economic crisis, and education.


Your words below. Quoted from an earlier reply/rant to me.
With the exception of the words in parentheses.


Originally Posted By: nofishfisherman
I realize what you asked. I guess I should have realized that you have no intention of questioning your own candidate. This thread is all about attack and not about honest reflection of the facts.

Go ahead and blame (candidate A) for not telling you how he will pay for everything and just ignore the fact that (candidate B) hasn't said a word about his plan either. Your head seems firmly planted in the sand and sadly you seem ok with it.


Hmmmmmphh !
If that aint the pot calling the kettle black !!
_________________________

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#1559563 - 10/16/08 07:09 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Uncle Bill]
Roofer Offline
Sr IceLeaders Family

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1832
Loc: Princeton, MN
Let's just see how many "Joe the plumbers" there are today. I'm willing to bet that there is more "stand around Jerry's" talking politics while they are supposed to be working. I predict at least 100 new posts from people who think they know something new today.

Face it fellas, in a few weeks it will be over with, and not one single person here will have anything to say or do about it.
_________________________
"In order to make the best of our opportunities, we must first have the opportunity"

Keep America going, hire Americans. smile

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#1559586 - 10/16/08 07:40 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Uncle Bill]
nofishfisherman Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 2426
Loc: Twin Cities
Originally Posted By: Uncle Bill
Originally Posted By: nofishfisherman
Here is my take on the debate. Not that anyone really cares what I think but I like to tell you all anyways for some reason.

McCain spoke all night about what he wanted to do- fund programs for special needs children, give everyone $5000 for health care, fund "no child left behind", off shore drilling, invest in alternative energy, etc... He never said how he would pay for all of this to start with and now he claims to be putting a freeze on all spending for what was it 1 or 2 years? How is that going to work. He promises to do all of this without spending any money?

He kept criticizing Obama for saying he wants to throw money at the problem but McCain followed it up every time with a rebuttle of what he is going to spend money on. He just kept double talking all night.

Even if McCain has a great idea he has thus far be unable to put a coherent plan together and deliver it to the American public. His arguements are eratic and disorganized. He might have the right answer but I can't tell by his arguements.

Tell me, where is the $5000 coming from that he is going to give everyone for health care? He is freezing all spending so when do we get that money? Why is he going to give us free money but then tax our health benefits at the same time? He's giving with one hand and taking it back with the other. How does that solve the problem? Its just not logical.

McCain did have some more fight tonight but did any one else think he looked unhealthy? Several people I talked with both Dems and Reps. mentioned it. Is the campaign getting to him or is he fighting an illness? His age and health worry me. Palin is not ready to lead this coutnry in war if needed. If the campaign doesn't trust her to do any more interviews how can we trust her to lead our country through economic crisis and a war on two fronts?

McCain gave it his all tonight but I think Obama stood up and dedended himself perfectly and in the end made a much stronger argument for how he will address health care, energy independence, the economic crisis, and education.


Your words below. Quoted from an earlier reply/rant to me.
With the exception of the words in parentheses.


Originally Posted By: nofishfisherman
I realize what you asked. I guess I should have realized that you have no intention of questioning your own candidate. This thread is all about attack and not about honest reflection of the facts.

Go ahead and blame (candidate A) for not telling you how he will pay for everything and just ignore the fact that (candidate B) hasn't said a word about his plan either. Your head seems firmly planted in the sand and sadly you seem ok with it.


Hmmmmmphh !
If that aint the pot calling the kettle black !!


I guess I don't understand your point. I never claimed Obama has said line by line how he will pay for everything. But atleast Obama is not claiming to freeze all spending while at the same time funding all of these porgrams and health insurance funds.

Lets set aside the fact that I don't know how McCain or Obama will pay for their plans. Neither has made that very clear.

I am more interested in knowing what you think about that the $5000 that McCain is going to give your family to buy health insurance. Are you ok with getting free money when he plans to just turn around and tax you on your benefits? If I give you a $20 bill but ask for 2 $10 bills in return how are you going to be better off?

Can you please hold off on your criticizing of my opinion and Obama for a few posts and give us a rational defense of McCain? I feel like most of us Obama people have had to defend him post after post so I would really appreciate if someone can put a logical defense together to support McCains health care plan as it honestly makes zero sense to me.

Frankly if you aren't willing to defend your own candidate's stance on the issues I'm not really interested in debating with you.
_________________________
"I want to share something with you: The three little sentences that will get you through life. Number 1: Cover for me. Number 2: Oh, good idea, Boss! Number 3: It was like that when I got here."

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#1559592 - 10/16/08 07:44 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: croixflats]
chub Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 503
Originally Posted By: croixflats
The terrorist have won. They succeeded in having people run for cover for fear of another attack. And they also succeeded by planting the seed of 9/11 and just sit back and watch the Americans ruin our own economy. And now we have a guy who thinks in similar ways of the current administration running for president. Ya think those terrorist have a big smile on their faces right now.


Just see how big that smile gets if we elect a Dem president to go along with the Dem controlled congress......

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#1559598 - 10/16/08 07:46 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Roofer]
dtro Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 08/19/00
Posts: 7335
Loc: Southwest Metro
I honestly think it’s a pipe dream to think either one of these guys (1) actually cares about you and me (2) will actually pull off what they are proposing. They can say whatever they want, but it all comes down to execution or getting it done.

While it’s fun to try to “prove the other side wrong” or pretend to be on the “right” side. Does it really have to come down to personal attacks on the candidates? For crying out loud, McCain was darn near beat to death serving his county and people make fun of his physical disabilities. That is about as low as it gets.
_________________________
DTroFishOn@Gmail.com
2007 King of the Cats Champion
2008 King of the Cats Champion

2008 IceLeaders Events


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#1559629 - 10/16/08 08:05 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: dtro]
Canon Guy Offline
FishingMN Family

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 160
Loc: St louis Park
Originally Posted By: dtro
For crying out loud, McCain was darn near beat to death serving his county and people make fun of his physical disabilities. That is about as low as it gets.


I don't care for that type of humor either,however I have been following this site and this forum for a few years and going low has been a consistant problem here by people on all sides.

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#1559651 - 10/16/08 08:25 AM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Canon Guy]
fishwater Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/16/08
Posts: 301
Loc: 55082 - MN
Originally Posted By: Canon Guy
Originally Posted By: dtro
For crying out loud, McCain was darn near beat to death serving his county and people make fun of his physical disabilities. That is about as low as it gets.

I don't care for that type of humor either,however I have been following this site and this forum for a few years and going low has been a consistant problem here by people on all sides.

I agree. I'm guilty of this. I don't really mean harm by calling Senator McCain on old gimpy dude, sorry if folks take offense. My grandfather had very similar shoulder issues as McCain from a tank accident in WWII, so I should think more of all the folks that sacrifice in the face of freedom and wind up gimped out. Too bad our more modern wars are more abstract, less contrast between good/bad, right/wrong. I respect McCain and his service greatly nonetheless.

Barring fishgutz dream of terror, I think this thing is in the bag. I can now vote for my third party messiah with a free conscience.
_________________________
Drink more fishwater there
Than any whale's mama ever seen

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#1559656 - 10/16/08 08:31 AM Re: Last 2008 Presidential Debate [Re: Big Tom]
Sandmannd Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 6727
Loc: St. Paul, MN
Originally Posted By: Big Tom
Originally Posted By: Chode2235
God bless both of these men for putting themselves on display like this, and God help America. We need a hand to continue [and to redeem] our ideas and tradition.


Excellent points Chode. Regardless of who you like or agree with, you have to give these two kudos for putting themselves out there for some pretty serious abuse.

Now back to the abuse. grin


So far the only thing I've gotton out of last night's comments. I thought most were abusive and off target. I liked Big Tom's first post along with Steve's. Chode's was thought out as well. Thanks for bringing substance to it instead of just bashing.
_________________________
"Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." ~Elizabeth Stone

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#1559673 - 10/16/08 08:47 AM Re: Last 2008 Presidential Debate [Re: Sandmannd]
J48jake Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 47
Loc: Milaca
This Post is being overrun by the Obama KGB! It will truly be a very scary next 4 yrs if the radical liberals get in office. How can we elect a president with NO EXPERIENCE, the man hasn’t even authored a bill? How many books has he authored? "The Audacity of Hope"? How about the Audacity to represent the people of Illinois and not do anything but worry about your own political gain.

Please ask questions!
_________________________
"One need pay absolutely no attention to those who decry the blood sports, unless they themselves, been from birth, logical vegetarians, for if it is right and moral to kill a beautiful animal for its food, it is also right and moral to kill a beautiful animal for its fur or the trophy." Theodore R. Roosevelt

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