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#1558728 - 10/15/08 12:04 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Loos15]
Sandmannd Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 6727
Loc: St. Paul, MN
Originally Posted By: Loos15
I'm wondering if some of the shepards aren't the wolves themselves.


You've heard of Obama haven't you? grin
_________________________
"Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." ~Elizabeth Stone

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#1558734 - 10/15/08 12:08 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Sandmannd]
Chode2235 Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Saint Paul
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want; He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters; He restores my soul.


Look at all of you getting all metaphysical on us now....

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#1558906 - 10/15/08 02:53 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: Chode2235]
Chode2235 Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Saint Paul
Or some more bad news, at least if you think "Ayers' is a legitimate issue in the campaign.

McCain has Saddam's lobbyist working for him?....

From Huffpo, so I know the content will be ignored:

"William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.

The two lobbyists who Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's government.

During the same period beginning in 1992, Timmons worked closely with the two lobbyists, Samir Vincent and Tongsun Park, on a previously unreported prospective deal with the Iraqis in which they hoped to be awarded a contract to purchase and resell Iraqi oil. Timmons, Vincent, and Park stood to share at least $45 million if the business deal went through.

Timmons' activities occurred in the years following the first Gulf War, when Washington considered Iraq to be a rogue enemy state and a sponsor of terrorism. His dealings on behalf of the deceased Iraqi leader stand in stark contrast to the views his current employer held at the time.

John McCain strongly supported the 1991 military action against Iraq, and as recently as Sunday described Saddam Hussein as a one-time menace to the region who had "stated categorically that he would acquire weapons of mass destruction, and he would use them wherever he could."

Timmons declined to comment for this story. An office manager who works for him said that he has made it his practice during his public career to never speak to the press. Timmons previously told investigators that he did not know that either Vincent or Park were acting as unregistered agents of Iraq. He also insisted that he did not fully understand just how closely the two men were tied to Saddam's regime while they collaborated.

But testimony and records made public during Park's criminal trial, as well as other information uncovered during a United Nations investigation, suggest just the opposite. Virtually everything Timmons did while working on the lobbying campaign was within days conveyed by Vincent to either one or both of Saddam Hussein's top aides, Tariq Aziz and Nizar Hamdoon. Vincent also testified that he almost always relayed input from the Iraqi aides back to Timmons.

Talking points that Timmons produced for the lobbyists to help ease the sanctions, for example, were reviewed ahead of time by Aziz, Vincent testified in court. Proposals that Timmons himself circulated to U.S. officials as part of the effort were written with the assistance of the Iraqi officials, and were also sent ahead of time with Timmons' approval to Aziz, other records show.

Moreover, there was a major financial incentive at play for Timmons. The multi-million dollar oil deal that he was pursuing with the two other lobbyists would only be possible if their efforts to ease sanctions against Iraq were successful."

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#1558944 - 10/15/08 03:34 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Sandmannd]
Dhhenry Offline
FishingMN Family

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 18
Loc: St. Paul, MN
Considering we just spent $700 billion bailing out rich white guys on Wall Street this comment is really hard to swallow. Again, think about the facts before commenting.

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#1558958 - 10/15/08 03:45 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Dhhenry]
Maximum12 Offline
Sr IceLeaders Family

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 1824
Loc: Twin Cities
Chode, I can't wait to see fishgutz' reaction to that. I am sure he will condemn McCain for associating with...oh, never mind. Saddam wasn't that bad, was he?


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#1558973 - 10/15/08 03:55 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Maximum12]
Chode2235 Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Saint Paul
More endorsements from Nobel Prize winning scientists:

An Open Letter to the American People

This year's presidential election is among the most significant in our nation's history. The country urgently needs a visionary leader who can ensure the future of our traditional strengths in science and technology and who can harness those strengths to address many of our greatest problems: energy, disease, climate change, security, and economic competitiveness. We are convinced that Senator Barack Obama is such a leader, and we urge you to join us in supporting him.

During the administration of George W. Bush, vital parts of our country's scientific enterprise have been damaged by stagnant or declining federal support. The government's scientific advisory process has been distorted by political considerations. As a result, our once dominant position in the scientific world has been shaken and our prosperity has been placed at risk. We have lost time critical for the development of new ways to provide energy, treat disease, reverse climate change, strengthen our security, and improve our economy.

We have watched Senator Obama's approach to these issues with admiration. We especially applaud his emphasis during the campaign on the power of science and technology to enhance
our nation's competitiveness. In particular, we support the measures he plans to take – through new initiatives in education and training, expanded research funding, an unbiased process for
obtaining scientific advice, and an appropriate balance of basic and applied research – to meet the nation's and the world's most urgent needs.

Senator Obama understands that Presidential leadership and federal investments in science and technology are crucial elements in successful governance of the world's leading country. We hope you will join us as we work together to ensure his election in November.

Signed,


Alexei Arikosov Physics 2003 Roger Guillemin Medicine 1977
Peter Agre Chemistry 2003 John L. Hall Physics 2005
Sidney Altman Chemistry 1989 Leland H. Hartwell Medicine 2001
Philip W. Anderson Physics 1977 Dudley Herschbach Chemistry 1986
Richard Axel Medicine 2004 Roald Hoffmann Chemistry 1981
David Baltimore Medicine 1975 H. Robert Horvitz Medicine 2002
Baruj Benacerraf Medicine 1980 Louis Ignarro Medicine 1998
Paul Berg Chemistry 1980 Eric R. Kandel Medicine 2000
J. Michael Bishop Medicine 1989 Walter Kohn Chemistry 1998
N. Bloembergen Physics 1981 Roger Kornberg Chemistry 2006
Michael S. Brown Medicine 1985 Leon M. Lederman Physics 1988
Linda B. Buck Medicine 2004 Craig C. Mello Medicine 2006
Mario R. Capecchi Medicine 2007 Yoichiro Nambu Physics 2008
Martin Chalfie Chemistry 2008 Marshall Nirenberg Medicine 1968
Stanley Cohen Medicine 1986 Douglas D. Osheroff Physics 1996
Leon Cooper Physics 1972 Stanley B. Prusiner Medicine 1997
James W. Cronin Physics 1980 Norman F. Ramsey Physics 1989
Robert F. Curl Chemistry 1996 Robert Richardson Physics 1996
Johann Diesenhofer Chemistry 1988 Burton Richter Physics 1976
John B. Fenn Chemistry 2002 Sherwood Rowland Chemistry 1995
Edmond H. Fischer Medicine 1992 Oliver Smithies Medicine 2007
Val Fitch Physics 1980 Richard R Schrock Chemistry 2005
Jerome I. Friedman Physics 1990 Joseph H. Taylor Jr. Physics 1993
Murray Gell-Man Physics 1969 E. Donnall Thomas Medicine 1990
Riccardo Giacconi Physics 2002 Charles H. Townes Physics 1964
Walter Gilbert Chemistry 1980 Roger Tsien Chemistry 2008
Alfred G. Gilman Medicine 1994 Daniel C.Tsui Physics 1998
Donald A. Glaser Physics 1960 Harold Varmus Medicine 1989
Sheldon L. Glashow Physics 1979 James D. Watson Medicine 1962
Joseph Goldstein Medicine 1985 Eric Wieschaus Medicine 1995
Paul Greengard Medicine 2000 Frank Wilczek Physics 2004
David Gross Physics 2004 Robert W. Wilson Physics 1978
Robert H. Grubbs Chemistry 2005

The views expressed in this letter represent those of the signers acting as individual citizens.
They do not necessarily represent the views of the institutions with which they are affiliated. The
Medicine award is for “Physiology or Medicine.”

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#1559019 - 10/15/08 04:35 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Chode2235]
Big Tom Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 645
Loc: Elk River
Originally Posted By: Chode2235
More endorsements from Nobel Prize winning scientists:

In particular, we support the measures he plans to take – through new initiatives in education and training, expanded research funding, an unbiased process for obtaining scientific advice, and an appropriate balance of basic and applied research – to meet the nation's and the world's most urgent needs.


Let me guess what might be behind their preference. $$$

At least they're honest about it.

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#1559044 - 10/15/08 05:08 PM Last 2008 Presidential Debate [Re: Big Tom]
Big Tom Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 645
Loc: Elk River
First of all let me say, "Thank God".

So will McCain pull a rabbit out of his arse tonight and finally lay out what he will do as our next President to address:

1. The ludicrous overspending and underfunding the past 8 years
2. Lack of government oversight on derivatives
3. Nonsensical mortgage underwriting practices
4. Short selling and commodity speculation on margin
5. Control of this country's legislative branch by lobbyists
6. Further erosion of the U.S. standing in world opinion
7. The complete breakdown of the GOP adherence to fiscal conservativeness
8. Transfer of American wealth to nations that despise us
9. An economy that is something less than “strong”
10. His odd choices of Sarah Palin and Phil Gramm


Or will he get all "Mavericky" and remind us of:

1. The experience of his opponent
2. His opponent’s associations with terrorists
3. His plan to put taxpayers on the hook for all the “bad” mortgages
4. His V.P.’s stopping the “Bridge to Nowhere”
5. Drill – Baby – Drill

It breaks my heart to see the poor soul just doesn’t get it.

I think this country would actually turn to a one-eyed, purple, Atheist transsexual right about now if they actually had a clue, a plan and the ability to sell it.

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#1559045 - 10/15/08 05:08 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Big Tom]
Sandmannd Offline
Sr HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 6727
Loc: St. Paul, MN
I think this septic truck sums up the elections pretty well:

_________________________
"Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." ~Elizabeth Stone

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#1559047 - 10/15/08 05:12 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Sandmannd]
stfcatfish Online   content
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 16192
Loc: Ely, MN
Hah! Good one, Shane. I'll be laughing at that one the whole time I'm watching the debate! grin grin grin
_________________________
"Because you have seen something doesn't mean you can explain it." Barry Lopez, Arctic Dreams
stevefossimages@yahoo.com
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#1559048 - 10/15/08 05:13 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Sandmannd]
Big Tom Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 645
Loc: Elk River
Originally Posted By: Sandmannd
I think this septic truck sums up the elections pretty well:


Nice Shane.

From what I've seen, I'd go with this.


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#1559092 - 10/15/08 06:01 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Big Tom]
Chode2235 Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 948
Loc: Saint Paul
Probably true, but lets remember how important our vote really is:



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#1559094 - 10/15/08 06:03 PM Re: All Obama, McCain & VP Posts go Here [Re: Chode2235]
stfcatfish Online   content
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 16192
Loc: Ely, MN
Chode, I firmly believe most of us here are intelligent enough to understand our vote has a purpose while at the same time enjoying a slightly cynical laugh over today's political process.
_________________________
"Because you have seen something doesn't mean you can explain it." Barry Lopez, Arctic Dreams
stevefossimages@yahoo.com
Wedding photography, guided photo excursions and fine art prints
Member, Canon Professional Services and Professional Photographers of America
Support our fine Fishing Minnesota Sponsors

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#1559200 - 10/15/08 07:59 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: LMITOUT]
basslkjohn Offline
FishingMN Family

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 152
Loc: Grand Rapids, MN
It's not class warfare, it's just data. I'm not begrudging anyone their hard earned wealth. I'm just pointing out to those who trot out the class warfare parrot or the [PoorWordUsage]'folks welfare theme, that there are lots of other forms of welfare embedded in the tax code.

Now I suppose you will reply that those tax advantages are both justified and deserved. Fine. But its still welfare...just goes by a different name.

If the flat tax advocates would also promote the elimination of tax breaks of ALL forms, I might find it appealing.

But the tax code favors the rich disproportionately to the middle class....so I stand by my statement and will provide the numbers to back it up. And I'm tired of paying lots of taxes myself to support the life style of the rich...particularly those who believe they 'made it on their own' and the tax breaks they enjoy are their just rewards for living a good and sanctimonious life.

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#1559209 - 10/15/08 08:09 PM Re: I geuss the H in BHO stands for Hood(Robin Hood) [Re: basslkjohn]
duckcall Offline
HotSpotOutdoors Family

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 72
What do people think about a national sales tax and eliminate income tax altogether? If it were a consumption tax, wouldn't that be the most fair way? The more you spend the more you are taxed. I could see the only exemptions being food and mortgages. Food because it is a neccesity, and mortgages because because you are already being taxed via property taxes. Any thoughts?

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