McCain fought in a war and was a POW. How has he not done enough for you.

Say no more, that explains it all

Sandmann and I have a fundamental disagreement about the nature of our society.

I think that there still exist many many systematic obstacles that prevent true equality in the sense that enables hard work to promote your economic situation. Principally the economic situation of your parents and family. I think the days of economic mobility are over if not severely limited.

Sandmann holds the idealistic and simplistic view of the world that hard work alone is enough to propel one past any obstacle they face.

Do you really think that poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough, or want it enough? Are you really going to say that to the workers in Pipestone who were building Bayliner boats that they lost their jobs because they didn't want them enough, or work hard enough building them? Really?

It is all well and good for people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but first they need to have the boots.

Sandmann and I have a fundamental disagreement about the nature of our society.

I think that there still exist many many systematic obstacles that prevent true equality in the sense that enables hard work to promote your economic situation. Principally the economic situation of your parents and family. I think the days of economic mobility are over if not severely limited.

Sandmann holds the idealistic and simplistic view of the world that hard work alone is enough to propel one past any obstacle they face.

Do you really think that poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough, or want it enough? Are you really going to say that to the workers in Pipestone who were building Bayliner boats that they lost their jobs because they didn't want them enough, or work hard enough building them? Really?

It is all well and good for people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but first they need to have the boots.


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John McCain should have lost his wings, at least after the 3rd crash. He is the epitome of mediocrity with a Daddy complex. Being a POW, while a very traumatic experience, does not qualify one to be President of the US.

Take a look at Rolling Stone's "Make Believe Maverick" for a brief illustration.


Also, check out Business Week's "Poverty Business" articles, or Moyers' interview with the author on why hard work alone isn't enough.

Here is the teaser, enough to get you to the google?

I want to ask you something fishorgolf, do you believe that society should not care about the poor? I mean give a da**, not take care of them. That it's a do or die world, survial of the fittest? You suceed or fail in life all on your own? Should we leave the bottom on the bottom and not lend a helping hand?

If everyone would just be like you or sandman, we wouldn't have these problems right?

What color is the sky in your world chode? Once you figure out the code in the Book Of Lifes Guarantees, lemme know huh? I'm a person who was downsized and has been struggling trying to find work. If only I had that book... .


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Exactly my point. And I've said it before, I have no problem with helping those that have lost their and need a little help to get going. Been in that situation with my wife loosing her job and getting some unemployment. Wasn't enough to get by, but it helped. Tell you one thing it did, got her butt moving to find a job fast!!

Tell ya what we do. Come on over to my neighborhood on the East Side. We'll take a drive around about, oh, lets say two square miles and we'll see how much "will" the people on the "system" have to work and get a head. Do they like being poor? Can't answer that, but they don't seem in a hurry to do anything about it. You have to start somewhere and they have the disallusion of starting at the top. Had one ask me if I knew of work. I told them the McDonalds up the street was hiring and they paid pretty good over peek times. They said "Nope, don't wanna flip burgers, I want a real job." I asked what skills they had, well that got me a blank stare.

Must see: "Pirates of Silicon Valley". And I think it was IBM that Gates Stole the mouse from.? PS, whoever had to inject the Abortion thing into an economics discussion? Thanks.

Sandman, you make more than me, so you probably get taxed more than me, and by my arugment you are more responsible for the welfare of society than I am.