That's so sweet and special. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy.


Then I realized it wasn't warm and fuzzy feelings. Lets just say I had to run out of my office!!



Make your own chance, if you don't wanna take a risk, then quicher cryin.

While your assessment of the wealthy is probably true for some I would be willing to bet that for most, you are off the mark a bit.

Those that are wealthy today may not have been all their life. Many have experienced bankruptcy, possibly multiple times, soup lines, even homelessness. Take to the time to talk with wealthy people you know and asking them how they attained their wealth? You might be surprised.

Some started with nothing and yes some had a kick start and either built it from there or lost it and then started over. The one thing in common is they all have a drive to succeed.

Consider Donald Trump. Even though he inherited a portion of his father’s fortune did file business bankruptcy and nearly went bankrupt personally at least once. Afterwards he managed to use his smarts and good business sense to make some good choices and worked his way back to the empire he has today.

How about Bill Gates? He didn’t inherit his father’s business but he is blessed with a high IQ beginning his computing career at the age of 13 before home computers were even a dream. He was fascinated with the technology. He actually dropped out of college in order to pursue his dream. In fact, he and his boyhood friend, and later business partner, started Microsoft by taking a huge chance. They went before MITS, the company that developed the Altair computer and declared that they had developed a BASIC program that could be used for the Altair, which was a lie. The truth was that they hadn’t written a single line of code. Eight weeks later after working feverishly they were to install the program to test it. They had never even seen an actual Altair computer themselves. Had their program not worked the first time Microsoft would likely have never been born. The rest is history.

Oprah Winfrey. Grew up black, poor, raped at the age of nine and again at fourteen, worked in radio and then as a local television news anchor. She got discovered by accident when she ad-libbed a story on the air, which landed her a job as a talk show host.

The company I work for and now partially own was founded on a $5.00 sale from a small machine shop located in the founder’s garage. He soon incorporated with two of his cousins and today the company is nearly fortune 100 and employs about 600 people with sales world-wide. My guess is that my company’s founders worked their share of hours as the business grew.

These are the first four wealthy people that popped into my head and I would say all of them have tasted middle class or less in their lifetimes only to build what they had by countless hours of dedication and hard work.
Bob

Thats pretty easy to say Sandmannd, especially if one comes from a white middle class background in the relatively affluent Minnesota.

I think what this election is about more than anything is ensuring (working toward) that the whole of the country has the same chance as white middle class Minnesotans, in that our own ability and ambition can/will determine our success in life. That, I think, is the perfection of the union.

Unfortunately, that means re-writing a good chunk of the social contract we have been living under. Necessary but probably painful for a few.

right, take risks you say. Like all the risks of these bad mortages. Great decision there. So great everyone followed, and then you have to pull them out of that sink hole. How do you feel about that?

Im not against taking risks, but take risks when you can and have studied about the situation. Not a lot of people can afford to take risks, thats the problem. Some people don't study the problem. I think with a little distrubution of wealth, that extra money can help people make good decisions on risks. I bet that term I just used scares teh [PoorWordUsage] out you republicans huh?

I would also argue that a HUGE share of wealthy people, such as McCain and Bush for instance, are mediocre men who I doubt have "worked" a day in their lives.

The rode the coat tails of greater men to success, much like so many of the other wealthy people in this country.

We also have dismissed luck too.

Um, Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros., AIG, Wachovia. Anyway my point is that it sure wasn't Exxon. There share prices is only down < ~10% from a couple weeks ago. They'l be fine, the might only make a few billion dollars profit this quarter.

Certainly even Apple computer has been hit a lot harder in the recent tailspin. They've lost about 35% in the last couple weeks.

What prompted you to imply that Exxon was hurt the most in this? Certainly not the facts.


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I wish we could stop making stuff up. You're already on the internet, please use it. [/quote]

Sorry, it was 4th biggest loser. From Oct. 10th.

General Motors (GM) was the biggest loser with a loss of $1.2B in market cap or a -31.11% decline in market cap to $2.7B.
GM is currently trading at lows at almost 60 year lows
Since GM is trading up over 5% today, its current market cap is back up to $2.8
Alcoa (AA) was the second biggest loser with a loss of $10B or a decline of -15.30% in market cap to $10.1B
Alcoa is trading at almost 13 year lows not seen since December, 1995 when it closed at 12.44
Alcoa is down about another 7% today, and at its current levels of about 11.60, it is on track to lose almost another $700M in market cap falling to $9.4B
Chevron (CVX) was the third biggest loser yesterday with a loss of almost $19B in market cap falling to a market cap of $131B
At 58, Chevron is trading at more than 2-year lows
Chevron is down another 10% today and is on track to lose another $12.5B in market cap
Exxon Mobil (XOM) was the 4th biggest loser with a loss of $46B in market cap, falling to $353B market cap
Exxon is trading at more than 2 year lows not seen since May, 2006
At about 62, Exxon is down over 9% again today, and on track to lose another $33B in market cap
American Express (AXP) was the 5th biggest loser with a loss of $3.6B in market cap falling to $27.8B in market cap
American Express is trading at more than 6-year lows, at its current levels, but at the low of the day, it was trading at almost 10 year lows
At about 22, AXP is down about 8% again today, and on track to lose another $2.1B in market cap

Didn't Gates steal some platform from Apple? Not to take away from his genius-ness... But then again that was a pretty genius thing to do.

Luck helps. I rather be lucky than smart.

Just to add to the success stories, the company I work for which makes medical guidewires and has one used approx every 3 seconds, was started as a backyard garage Fishing Lure company.

To say that the majority of these people were "born with a Silver Spoon" is kind of in insult I think.

A lot of wealthy folks also have a good heart, and they know what is right, it doesn't have to be forced from them.

First, I grew up in ND and my parents didn't have much. I doubt they ever really hit more than 20 grand a year in income. I learned at an early age that if I wanted anything "extra" I had to work for it. Mow lawns, babysit, do whatever it took. Everyone has the same chance, especially in this day and age. Last I looked, we aren't living in the 1930's anymore. Tell me how taxing more to give more money to these social programs is going to raise ambition or will? Not gonna happen. Just means they still won't have to work and enjoy more.

I've tried many things, changed careers a few times. There was a time in my life I was so poor I would have to put Toothpaste on a credit card. I'd have to go and try to get some meals off of friends, crash on their couches for weeks until I could get on my feet. But I clawed my way back up. So I don't need to hear that I was born into anything. The fact that I'm white has nothing to do with anything. No one ever came up to me and said "You shouldn't be poor because you are white, here's "X" amount of money, get back up mister!!"




There's no such thing as a bad mortgage. I've worked in that business as well. If you used a reverse mortgage correctly and not spent the money you saved, you would have come out a head. You need to still pay like you have a regular mortgage, the difference being that what is above your minimal payment goes into your invenstments. Not my fault you took out a mortgage you didn't understand. If you don't understand it, research it. I don't think any of us should have to pay for ignorance.

Why can't anyone afford to take a risk? Mainly they are afraid of loosing it all and starting over. That's part of trying to get going. If you fall, pick your butt up and hit the bricks again. Nothing comes easy and don't expect me to hand you a thing. There's no such thing as a good desicion on a risk. It's a RISK!!!! It's like rolling the dice. More times than not you come up on the loosing end. I played stocks. Started up a couple of business' that didn't take off or make me much, as a matter of fact, went in the hole. I've bought real estate (not from being rich, but from equidy in my home) and have lost my rear in that as well. Some know that I have two new business that are in the works. Will they succeed, I sure hope so. Chances are good they could fail, that's the game. If you are unwilling to play it, then again, don't complain you are where you are. I've got everything I have from decades of hard work and hitting rock bottom a number of times. It's not easy and it sucks most of the time, but I at least have a home, boat, car, some toys and a great family. I'll work five jobs if I have to to make sure my Family and Home are secure. Those are the things that matter to me. I can live without the toys, but don't bash me cause I've worked my tail off to get them.

As far as distrabution of wealth to jumpstart you on your way......it's already there. They're call loans!!! Here's a great concept, you wanna use some of MY money to try to get ahead in life, go ahead. But you're paying it back with interest. If what you do doesn't work out, you still pay. I know, I know, I'm evil for making you responsible for yourselves, but you better grow up sometime!!

I am now dumber for reading this forum thanks, and my God have mercy on your soul. (little Adam Sandler Humor).

McCain fought in a war and was a POW. How has he not done enough for you.

No. He walked into Apple and they showed him the "Mouse" technology. They GAVE him the open source code for it and sent him on his way with a prototype. He fine tooned it. I don't see that as much stealing ans Steve Jobs being over confident and pretty dumb.

It was Xerox that the technology was stolen from. Geeze.

[quote=Sandmannd
As far as distrabution of wealth to jumpstart you on your way......it's already there. They're call loans!!! Here's a great concept, you wanna use some of MY money to try to get ahead in life, go ahead. But you're paying it back with interest. If what you do doesn't work out, you still pay. I know, I know, I'm evil for making you responsible for yourselves, but you better grow up sometime!!
[/quote]

What a concept Sandman! So explain to me, why all these rich people who probably would say the same you just did require us to bail their companies out of the ditch.
Loans are great things, unless you can only get 22-30% interest ones because of your financial background. Loans for college? great interest rates but unfortunly the college tuition cost are just skyrocketting. I don't understand how you can't see the vaule of programs such as the inner cities ones that help kids realize theres a future in the right way of doing things instead of trying to strike it rich selling drugs or stealing cars. If not that, then screw them.
Atleast give the middle class a break. Put some real money back into their pockets. Help fiances new ways of generating energ/fuel.
Stop helping those who has the means to help themselves.

Not the first time. Remember all the way back in 2004?

Say no more, that explains it all