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#1554549 - 10/11/08 12:52 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: outdoor ran]
ditchpickle6996 Offline
IceLeaders Family

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 198
Loc: Nisswa, MN
What about offering insurance to cover the costs should you need help in the BWCA or Quetico? Then people have a choice and it is self supporting. If you break down in your vehicle and need a tow you either have coverage under your insurance or you pay the bill. If there was a free tow service people would not maintain their vehicles and become careless. If you have a fire at your home and the fire dept comes and you have no insurance, you will get the bill. I know it's not exactly the same,,, just an idea.
_________________________
Jeremiah Johnson: Wind's right, but he'll just run soon as we step out of these trees.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Trick to it. Walk out on this side of your horse.

Johnson: What if he sees our feet?

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Elk don't know how many feet a horse has!

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#1554693 - 10/11/08 06:31 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: ditchpickle6996]
Quetico Online   content
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 739
Loc: Eagan
I know there is at least one company that offers insurance for S&R. Its mainly targeted at people who travel in the mountains and major wilderness areas out west.
_________________________
So many lakes to fish so little time

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#1554848 - 10/11/08 10:18 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: stfcatfish]
delcecchi Online   content
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 650
Loc: Rochester, MN
I believe there is a monthly Afee as well. At least there was for the one I looked at in Cabelas last spring.
_________________________
Del

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#1554859 - 10/11/08 10:26 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: delcecchi]
Happy Birthday stfcatfish Moderator Online   content
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 16187
Loc: Ely, MN
The yearly fee for service for the satellite tracker is $100, according to the company's Web site. So that's on top of the $150 for the unit.

$250/year is cheap or expensive, depending on your outlook.
_________________________
"Because you have seen something doesn't mean you can explain it." Barry Lopez, Arctic Dreams
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#1554957 - 10/12/08 03:04 AM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: stfcatfish]
caseymcq Online   content
Sr IceLeaders Family

Registered: 05/01/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: Babbitt, MN
Originally Posted By: stfcatfish
$250/year is cheap or expensive, depending on your outlook.


That would only be for the first year and then just the $100/year "subscription" after that, right? Or am I missing something that the $150 for the unit is a yearly rental fee and not an outright purchase?

Either way, it seems cheap for a little "life insurance." Granted the Mrs. doesn't get to cash in and throw a big party like she would with the other grin
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May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it. ~Irish Blessing

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#1554970 - 10/12/08 07:01 AM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: caseymcq]
Happy Birthday stfcatfish Moderator Online   content
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 16187
Loc: Ely, MN
Yep, $250 first year only, then $100/year after that.
_________________________
"Because you have seen something doesn't mean you can explain it." Barry Lopez, Arctic Dreams
stevefossimages@yahoo.com
Wedding photography, guided photo excursions and fine art prints
Member, Canon Professional Services and Professional Photographers of America
Support our fine Fishing Minnesota Sponsors

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#1555043 - 10/12/08 10:18 AM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: stfcatfish]
Down Deep Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 1029
Loc: Duluth, MN
Late fall, winter and spring would be where a tracker unit would be of most value. Cold and wet conditions can greatly reduce the amount of survival time someone has if they get lost. Then there is the issue of an injury and/or medical emergency. It's the day tripper who is usually unprepared to deal with getting lost or injured.

In regards to comments about charging these women for the S&R I don't understand the arguments to support sending them a bill.

S&R must be accounted for in emergency plans just like fire suppression and medical response. Going afield is popular and has a few BILLION $$$$ return to Minnesota's economy. Ask the people who live in Ely what the financial impact is.

As an example, the B-dub has about 250,000 visitors each year spending an average of 3 days each visit. Someone is going to get lost or hurt. Services need to be in place to aid those people. Especially if it's me, one of my loved ones or you.

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#1555060 - 10/12/08 11:10 AM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: Down Deep]
Northlander Moderator Offline
FishingMN Pro Staff

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 15669
Loc: Duluth Mn./Superior, Wi.
Down Deep they werent lost. Just a little bit late getting to where they wanted to be. crazy

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#1555110 - 10/12/08 01:01 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: Northlander]
thistlekicker Offline
IceLeaders Family

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 218
Loc: Paul Bunyan Land
Originally Posted By: Northlander
Down Deep they werent lost. Just a little bit late getting to where they wanted to be. crazy


This is what I don't understand...who in their right mind would expect to cover 40 miles of rarely-travelled, unmaintained trail through legit wilderness in 3 days (left Friday, expected to arrive Sunday)? Seems like they didn't know what they were getting into.

I imagine if they had attempted this trip earlier in the season, when they'd have had to pick up a permit, their plans and itinerary would have at least raised red flags at the issuing station. ("Wait a minute, you are going to do what, in how many days?")

Not saying they should start requiring permits year 'round, or that permit issuing stations should be responsible for checking everyone's initerary for practicality, just sayin...


Edited by thistlekicker (10/12/08 01:07 PM)

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#1555196 - 10/12/08 03:30 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: thistlekicker]
spivak Offline
FishingMN Family

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 111
I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with the way this scenario played out. The women did nothing wrong, in my opinion, except have overly ambitious plans in the time required to hike the trail. They didn't make it out in time. Bells and whistles went off and it took off from there. Would it have been better if one of them was hurt to justify the Search and Rescue? The BWCA is classified as a wilderness--perfectly or imperfectly--and we willingly do without certain things when we venture in there: cell phone coverage for example. What would we give up to be adequately covered in all contingencies? And when the women didn't show up, after a reasonable time, the people we fall back on in emergencies took over. I am comfortable with the way this played out. The women may feel a bit embarrassed by all the fuss and we might feel a bit put out by it but I'm not sure I would have wanted it to work out any other way.

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#1555279 - 10/12/08 05:08 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: spivak]
Northlander Moderator Offline
FishingMN Pro Staff

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 15669
Loc: Duluth Mn./Superior, Wi.
Im very very glad they were found safe, no doubts there. It just sounds to me like they went in ill prepared and had no plan if they did run long but head east. How do you lose your paper map? Thats the one thing you guard with your life. A GPS would have been a second thing to have. Do some pre planning and have the coords marked in it.
All in all I toss this up as a good learning tool for them and everyone else who reads there story. The more I think about it though I believe anyone having to be rescued should have to pay a % of the rescue. 5%, 10% whatever. I know if I ever have to be rescued I will surely be donating to the cause.
Who knows maybe they have. In that case its all good.
Again Im happy for them and theur families they were found safe and sound with nothing hurt but their pride.

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#1555409 - 10/12/08 07:44 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: Northlander]
Quetico Online   content
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 739
Loc: Eagan
I know I'm not the most experienced wilderness traveler on here. In my 12 years of experience traveling the BW and other wilderness areas I have learned one key thing: your maps are your life.

I spend hours studying the areas I'm traveling before I head out. I go over the maps with everyone in my group at the beginning and end of each day. We usually keep back-ups in our packs. The primary map case is always tied to something like a pack or a canoe.
_________________________
So many lakes to fish so little time

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#1555443 - 10/12/08 08:08 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: Quetico]
ditchpickle6996 Offline
IceLeaders Family

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 198
Loc: Nisswa, MN
down deep,
How are fire suppression and medical response outside of the BWCA/Quetico paid for? As earlier stated, there is a charge for an ambulance and/or fire trucks if you do not have insurance? I ask you, whats the difference? There in not one person who has stated that rescue should not be performed. Only that everyone else should not foot the bill. As far as helping the economy, yes Ely sees some revenue from wilderness travel but the rest of the state does not and those three days are spent in the woods, not in motels or restaurants. I spend alot of time in Ely and have asked them, and most people now days are not spending money in town,,, just passing through. If you don't believe me, look at the business' for sale and shut down.
_________________________
Jeremiah Johnson: Wind's right, but he'll just run soon as we step out of these trees.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Trick to it. Walk out on this side of your horse.

Johnson: What if he sees our feet?

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Elk don't know how many feet a horse has!

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#1555652 - 10/12/08 10:27 PM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: ditchpickle6996]
Down Deep Offline
Sr FishingMN Family

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 1029
Loc: Duluth, MN
DitchPickle - People make mistakes and get hurt and sometimes they need help. I'd like to think that we have an obligation to help them out with the resources we have because those resources benefit everyone. Incidentally most of the labor in these S & R operations is volunteer. This issue has also given me pause to think that I've never sent any cash to the St. Louis Rescue Squad which I plan to rectify.

I travel to Ely several times a year and it seems to me that there is lots of tourist money being left there. They sure get lots of mine.

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#1555788 - 10/13/08 07:35 AM Re: Two hikers missing in the BWCA on Kek Trail [Re: Down Deep]
Happy Birthday stfcatfish Moderator Online   content
HotSpotOutdoors Pro Staff

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 16187
Loc: Ely, MN
Down Deep and ditchpickle are both right about the Ely economy.

The economy itself is based on tourism. Most people who visit Ely come not because of what's in town but what's out of town. But almost everyone, including most of those who see the community as a gateway instead of a destination, spend some money here.

That being said, the tourist economy is not the type of economy that trickles a good living down to the working class, and it is always in flux. People constantly are opening new businesses. Some succeed. Some don't.

_________________________
"Because you have seen something doesn't mean you can explain it." Barry Lopez, Arctic Dreams
stevefossimages@yahoo.com
Wedding photography, guided photo excursions and fine art prints
Member, Canon Professional Services and Professional Photographers of America
Support our fine Fishing Minnesota Sponsors

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