I know everyone thinks they are experienced enough to never get in this kind of situation but the fact is it can happen to anyone.

If that weren't true no one on this forum would ever bust a prop on a rock, forget to put the drain plug back in, accidently hook themselves in the thumb, etc...

Stuff happens no matter what and I have no problem paying to help people like this. From the articles I read they were well prepared and had alot of experience, no mention of a lost map in what I read.

Now if there was a reckless element to it like a bunch of drunk frat boys who thought hiking the trail blind folded would be cool then we can talk about restitution.

Any of us can get lost in a heartbeat. I do know a little about S&R. In fact I was the Chief of Search for the Cook County Sheriffs Response Unit when they first formed and I was a member and board member of the Gunflint Trail Volunteer Fire Department and Cook County S&R before they were reorganized. I have been involved in a number of searches, rescues, and recoveries in the area. So I do have some street creds on this issue.

This is a touchy subject because on the one hand you don't want people hesitating to call for help out of fear of being charged. On the other hand if people knew that they might be charged some sort of fee for a search and or a rescue maybe more people would take greater caution with them into the big woods and avoid a lot of problems. There are also a lot of expenses involved for each department, organization and individual involved with the search. As a side note most S&R organizations do take donations and a lot of the time the victim or their families have donated generously.

Something I read said that alot of places charge an extra fee on every permit issued to help offset these occasional search and rescue missions. Does MN do this with the BWCA? If they charged everyone a couple bucks on each permit that should cover the costs for the most part. I would look at it like buying insruance while you are up there.

This would solve many of the problems. The user is paying for it and they won't have to weigh the benefits of calling if they are going to be charged later.

I'm not sure where the fees go for the federal BWCAW permits. Anybody here know if the USFS permit money gets spread out among the smaller jurisdictions that make up the bulk of the rescue squads?

In this case, nofish, there may not have been a permit fee because no reserved/fee permit is required to use the BWCAW after Oct. 1 and before May 1. You can fill out one of the self-issued permits at any BWCAW entry point and go in for a multi-day stay during that time period. These are the same self-issued permits that, from May through the end of September, you can use for day trips.

When I hiked the Pow-Wow Trail last September I needed to reserve a permit and pay my $10, but had it been after Oct. 1 I wouldn't have.

I can just imagine how hard it would be for anyone not very familiar with the Kek Trail to hold the trail through the burned areas. GPS would likely have been some help. When I hiked the Pow-Wow, I went to online maps and was able to punch in coords for all the campsites, trail intersections and several key landmarks including the entry point. I ended up not really needing any of them (the Fisher and McKenzie maps were plenty good enough), but had I gotten turned around out there somewhere, which is mighty easy to do, they would have been a godsend.

The compass and hard-copy map are still required, IMO, because GPS units can fail or get lost or you can be stranded down in a hollow with no available signal.

My daughter lives out in the Lake Tahoe, Ca area. Her and her friends are always criss- crossing the mountains on hiking / mountain climbing trips. In the winter they X-country ski into remote passes. She and her friends all carry Spot’s "Satellite Personal Trackers” They cost about a $150.00 and can plot map location with Google earth and send location information. Seems to me that these things are a cheap way to gain some peace of mind and save a lot of S & R time and money. The US Forest Service ought to rent them out.

Well there are areas that charge a fee on permits for to cover S&R costs.

Look at the expenses included with Quetico Provincial Park Permits. That park has far fewer people due to the permit costs. I believe thats a great idea to keep some of the unprepared idiots out of the BW. Hike up the permit costs a bit (not much) to cover the S&R costs.

When I was working outdoor retail I was frequently confronted with people who thought the BWCAW and Quetico were places you just canoed out to a campsite. They wanted to argue with anyone who told them they needed special gear or anything more than a road map for these areas. A few times I even pushed the limits and attempted to talk people like this into not going at all or hiring a guide.

Increasing permit costs similar to Quetico would help discourage some of these unprepared and unexperienced travelers.

I agree. In general the permit fees are very minimal compared to the gear needed or compared to the costs of other types of vacations.

I'd pay more for a permit to off set the costs of S&R. I'd rather do that then force the victims or taxpayers to pay for it.

Depending on where they were and how much of the bedrock was exposed the Ely Greenstone may have rendered the compass useless.

As has been already stated some of the burned areas of the trail and be hard to navigate (but offer good exposure for GPS use). They were found about 5 miles from the Gunflint Trail. That area has been some of the hardest hit with recent fires.

The problem with an addition fee is who gets it and who distributes it. A helicopter alone can be a few thousand an hour I believe. There's no way that the average person could pay for a search of any magnitude and likewise there isn't anyone that's saying if they can't pay don't search. It's an interesting problem and there's been some good suggestions so far. I like the tracking device idea. It sounds like they have gone way down in price since I've been out of S&R.

That tracking device has me pretty interested, too. I spend many, many hours out there alone in the forests of the BWCAW and SNF, and I think that would ease my wife's mind quite a lot.

Hmmm, maybe I'll have her put it on her Christmas list.

I'm all for people being searched for if need be, but I think that there should be a waiver to sign when entering a managed wilderness that should you need an extraction, you will be sent a bill. This would make SURE that everyone takes every precaution needed to walk/paddle out. (in this case an extra map/gps or tracking device) Then the worst case scenerio is you are alive to pay that bill. That being said, I thank God these women were found alive. Kudos to the rescue!

It makes the most sence to rescue people without charge, take care of your citizens & they will put much more back into the Tax coffers during their life than S&R costs. We can't let our country men & women be left for the wolves.

STF, you want to go into the emergency beacon rental business?
Later -CLoma.

With all due respect loma, I must disagree. At some point people need to take responibility for their actions to a certain extent. It actually makes more sense to make it clear that this is not a walk in the park and anyone walking 45 miles through rough wilderness should be prepared, which many people are not. (and from what I've read, these hikers were not) I said nothing of leaving our country men and women for the wolves,,, I only said that their bill should not be left for others.

Funny how the older of the 2 women made it sound like they were not lost just late getting where they were supposed to be. DUH!

Are they going to send everyone a bill in the mail? Is everyones taxes going to go up just because of this search and rescue? Hope I never get hurt or lost or sinking on Lake Superior. Would suck to need a little help and make everyone have to pay