Any idea what would happen in Iraq if we packed up and went home tomorrow?

i on the other hand look at voting patterns on state ballots as an accurate measure of the electorate. polls can be manipulated to get any result you want. repubs have won 7 out of 10 pres elections since 1968, by and large, voters vote against tax increases on state ballots, gay marriage, benefits for illegals, california in 2006 voted against increasing taxes on oil companies in the state to fund alt. fuel research, in oregon last year they voted against taxing tobacco further to fund health care for children. over the years, politicians who raised taxes too much got voted out. gun control is a hot issue that dems are afraid to touch. any racial preferences on state ballots are voted against by the voters i have yet to see any poll that stated people wanted to leave iraq now regardless of the outcome. the last time you guys ran full bore against an unpopular war you got 40% of the vote. look at obama changing his left wing positions and trying to come to the center. why do you think he is doing that??? polls tend to be different than voting patterns at times.

and good luck in convincing the electorate that more freedoms are to be had with increasing washington dc's power.polls taken in big cities will support your view. elections dont always do.

sure, the american people may share some of your views, and they share some of mine. i would be very careful to say that the american people are just an extension of al franken. you like polls? how many % points is franken behind coleman? the last poll i saw was 10 points. and i consider coleman useless

McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis ran on all those ideas and lost. and kerry ran on basically giving the UN more power, or at least allowed the GOP the claim that about him, and lost. so be careful in putting too much stock in polls. some of these same polls had kerry winning right up to election night.
and the last attempt we had at Universal health care was one of many reasons the DNC lost house seats(1994)

we are not a nation of ditto heads. but its a stretch to believe that the electorate are air america fans just waiting to pull the lever for obama. hows that air america going, by the way??

one other issue. whenever people from any state are allowed to vote death penalty, pro and con, they have voted the pro

I just spent a week up in Vancouver BC for training and there was not one person who had anything good to say about the Govt run healthcare. Everyone said if they actually needed care(meaning something done before the 3 months waiting line) they went south of the border. The only they could say good about it was it didn't directly cost them anything if they were willing to wait for 3 or 4 months to get treatment.

I expect better care for my dog than the people get up thereQ!

I work with guys from Vancouver, and they said it is nice because they don't pay for anything, like having a baby, etc, but they say they really do pay for it, as they are taxed a TON more than us the US, and that is a main reason, in their eyes.

Since we are digressing onto healthcare; I am curious to know why all the sudden we are talking about universal healthcare again? It was too taboo for Kerry to talk about 4 years ago. Surely it is not all Hillary...

Curious on your thoughts, I'll share my ideas a little later. Get your tinfoil hat ready...

Boy thats a can of worms that just got opened but no one bit

I was just kind of curious, seeing as how I see this notion being tossed out there frequently.

It is rather off the topic, and probably should be it's own thread though.

America after eight years of Clinton vs. eight years of Bush.

The proof is in the pudding.

Yea, sixteen years of suckfest. Sex scandles and war. One road the IT boom and the other had to deal with the worst tradgedy ever on American soil. One went after the terrorest, the other went after cigars and interns.

Bush is a TARD!

Brian K

That was intellegent muskyman1011.

Chode, when you say the people you meet say there NHC is a treasure I don't think they are the same people most of the rest of the population hang with. I have a very strong feeling your circle of friends etc. are a little on the let's say for a lack of a better word "studious" side. Would you agree with that? I know you will say "I have many friends that are this and that" but being honest I don't think you hang much with the common folk.

your post reminds me of when hillarycare was being debated and at the time some congresscritter introduce leglislation that would exempt congress from any healthcare plan to come out. when asked about it his reply was congress already has a health plan. wanna bet it aint the same that they wanted to foist on us??


looking at chode's postings, i would have to say he doesnt hang around with us commoners. I have yet to meet anybody who believes that more power concentrated in DC is a great idea. be they democrat or republican. and anyone who uses polling to show that his views are the mainstream yet ignore voting patterns in the last 30 years also tells me he may be more out of touch than he is willing to admit.

yeah, i went to college. became white collar. never forgot my blue collar working class, conservative upbringing roots. learned how to fish, hunt and fight at a young age. chode is city folk(st paul). his views are those of city folk. no crime in that but there is and always has been a different viewpoint of those who live in the city verses those who live in suburbs and esp rural. seen it since the early 1970's. and there are a few others who post that live in the cities and have almost the same viewpoint as himself. thats the way it always has been. and i have seen people who grew up in rural minn and moved to the metro and after a few years of hanging around with those elites they get destroyed.

Huh? You guys are busting chode for not being in touch with "the commmon man"? I didn't know I'd stumbled into an episdoe of "I'm ruraler & bluer collared than you".

This thread has taken a surreal turn. I'm sure all will be revealed soon.

(getting way off topic, but getting a chuckle)
I gotta laugh at the thought that most city folks are "elites".... hahaha! I grew up on the East Side of St. Paul, I guess that does make me "elite" Those who know the East Side are laughing along with me right now, hehe.

But I can go with it, I know which fork to use first

I still am curious were chode gets his polling. I dont put a whole lot of stock in polls as mostly the sample size is too small but since chode lives by them, here is what i found on rassmussen

1)61% of voters surveyed favored fewer gov services and lower taxes
2)42% believe the allies should follow more of what the US wants as it relates to foreign relations. 29% say we should follow our allies
3)78% of people polled believe immigrants should follow the language and customs of this country
4)64% say america is generally fair and decent
5)75% are proud of their country and its history and say other nations should follow our lead
6)59% favor offshore drilling
7)65% of americans want to keep their own health insurance and are satisfied with it.
8)56% of people surveyed express a positive view of the NRA
9) 52% believe that the fed gov. does not need any new tax revenue and 57% believe that all tax increases should be approved by voters
10)on the economy, 54% believe the best thing the gov can do is get out of the way by reducing taxes and regulation
11)only 29% favor a national health insurance plan overseen and run by the fed government
12) 57% believed that social security needs to be fixed rather than just left alone, although there seems to be lack of support for anything proposed so far


so based on these polls, and polling isnt perfect, i am the mainstream