as far as the reply to my post about the treaty, fine, I'll stand corrected. But there is more in that treaty that isn't being followed than is.

My apologies to anyone who may have taken offense at the conquered people comment as well. It was meant with the idea that I don't believe that any American should have more rights than any other, regardless of race, ethnic background, etc. It is how it was and is in any country that was taken over by another. Wrongs were done to those who were defeated in war, etc. from the beginning of time. You weren't given special treatment, if you are defeated in a war, etc., then you become part of the "winning" (For lack of a better term)country and follow it's laws. I don't see how it should be any different here.

Back to the fishing... fine. Allow the tribes/bands that signed the treaty to net. But try to compromise and use trap nets and allow the DNR to milk them before they are killed. I don't see how that could hurt anything. It allows the rights by treaty to be followed, while giving back to the lake that provides so much to so many.

When you say this do you mean as far as native's rights or fishing quality?

"Indian is a citizen of a sovereign nation"

However .... this soveriegn nation receives my tax money. I equate that to Palistine, Iseral and Egypt.

Fishing quality. As bad as it could get, I don't think it will get that bad. Somebody would step in first; the State, Feds, or maybe the Tribe. But if things aren't changed soon, it could still get pretty bad.

Slick814
a treaty is a law and didnt the mille lacs band defeat the state in court over this issue? so Why cant people just accept the treaty as law. Just read your own post they are the "winning" team here. Oh and the Ojibway never lost in any war nor has there been any war against the United States. There was a on battle on sugar point Leech Lake mn, and the Ojibway won that one.

liljohnson-

You're missing the point. We understand that it's a law. What some of us are upset about is the potential damage to the fishery. You would think that Native Americans, who have a long history of conservation, would do more along those lines to help us protect the fish population. The Tribes could, and should, modify their practices to help keep the fishing plentiful for EVERYONE, just as the anglers have done.

I agree 100% but i'm just trying to correct some of the misconceptions about Native americans ( ojibway in paticular) on here. I know they dont want the lake damage just as much as you. But sport anglers also got to take alook at their own practices too! And there is no commercial netting going on up there thats a complete lie! And I only said in my post last nite is that red was being netting before 1917 just not commercially.

There was no big war and we were forced onto reservations or anything like that. The goverment negotiated ( sometimes fraudulent have you) with us ( on a nation to nation bases)and we reserved some of these rights.

Up where? Red Lake? The Red Lake Tribe controls 90% the lake! The control of commercial netting was turned over to the Tribe in 1930. There is no netting on Mille Lacs by anyone other than the Mille Lacs band. Here's a quote from a DNR article about Red Lake and commercial fishing:



http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/marapr00/red_lake.html

Sport anglers HAVE modified their practices. Protective slots and possession limits have been proven to improve the quality of fishing in every lake they are instituted in. What have the Tribes done that is on par with that?

I was replying to your accusation that the mille lacs band are selling their fish ( black market comment ). Wheres you proof? any study? i've never heard of anybody ever being charge with this (it is a crime the state can prosecute). You spreading gossip. Why do people like you only believe negitive rumors but want solid proof on the positives?

liljohnson-

It's not "gossip", nor are these "negative rumors". There have been lots of reported (and unreported) claims of Native Americans selling fish they have netted to taverns and grocery stores in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Here is a case that happened up at Red Lake:

The Bymarks are also angry at the state. They say little was done to stop black-market fishing. Gary says he would stand behind the bar and watch pickup trucks heaped high with walleye drive past. He says thousands of pounds of walleye were sold at his bar.

Bymark: Like when you're sitting at the bar here, and any one of them Indians come in and say we got walleye for a dollar a walleye, cleaned and everything; they're gonna buy 'em. Two or three guys would come in here and walk out with a hundred walleyes.

State and tribal officials say they tried to enforce the law. Widespread illegal netting and limited resources made it difficult.

http://www.upperredlakeassn.com/interesting_facts.htm

Granted, this is was from Red Lake, but I have heard the same story over and over from people witnessing the same thing. As the State and Tribal officials said in the above story, they try to enforce the law but it is difficult due to how widespread it is.

Now, I'm not trying to say the majority (or even a sizeable number) of the Mille Lacs Band are out there selling their walleyes. My main point has always been that they are taking too many big breeding females in their nets, and if they started using live traps instead of the nets and just keep the smaller "eater size" fish, the future would look better for everone involved. The Native-Americans AND the Anglers, alike.

Please answer this question: "Is there a reason why the Indians won't use a live trap instead of a net?"

HEARSAY!

Gill net are more efficant. Metro why can you not believe that these gill nets have mesh sizes that prevent catching "large breeding sized females"? Yes some incedentally get rapped up in them and get caught, as a whole these nets do "select" smaller sized fish, this is a fact. Not all fish that come in contact with a gill net get trapped.
I would like to see trap nets and more selective harvest and milking of breeding sized fish, just don't know if it would be possible with the narrow window they net in.

I just know what I see and I see quite a few big walleyes and northerns getting caught in these nets. I was doing some research on this subject and found that there are commercial fishermen who also use gill nets in Minnesota, but they are only allowed to keep the "rough fish" (bullheads, carp, suckers, etc.). They are required, by law, to release any game fish. After having read that, the obvious thought came to mind....why can't the Tribes release the bigger fish they have trapped in their nets, or at least the ones that are healthy enough to be released? If other commercial fishermen can do this, why can't the Indians?

Thats solid proof? No thats baseless hearsay like your spreading. Why aint there at least one arrest? Its too wide spread for enforcement? where have they tried what charges have been brought up and against who? Like I said before your a glass half empty kind of guy dont want to have any faith in anybody.

The other fishermen ( non natives netters) do this whether there alive or dead keeps the from targeting game fish. I was about to bring up this point about other people netting but didnt want to get off the subject.