I believe it's no secret that there is not enough crude oil to power the world forever.regardless of who owns it or who is profiting from it. I doubt it will last the next hundred years. I dont know that, just speculation.
the alternative is obviously going to have to be something other than petroleum based products.
I don't know what that will be. solar? nuclear power?
hydrogen derived from H2O? soybean oil? ethanol?
what I do know is that it's development is going to have to start somewhere.
if you don't agree with that then you come up with a better plan.
this process of making ethanol may very well not be cost efficient, but it's a start.
it will likely pave the way for what is to come.

I don't really care what we make our fuel out of. Of course maintaining standards of living always seems a valid issue; which would go back to the being able to pull the a boat thing,, being able to afford to pull the boat, and have a sandwich so that if I don't catch fish I won't starve. The word on the street is the entire process from making to burning Ethanol creates more polution than oil. Seems kind of self defeating.

My suburban is a flex fuel veichle. When I run the normal 87 octane I get 17 mpg, when I tried using the E-85 the mpg went to 12. Even though the E-85 cheaper at the pump it ends up costing more because the gas mileage is poor. You cant run straight E-85 in the winter because it will freeze and my owners manual says dont use while towing. I really dont see the point of E-85

[quote=Carp-fisher]Corn based ethanol is one of the biggest scams in human history. It takes about 400 pounds of corn to make enough ethanol to fill a 25 gallon gas tank. Think about that.

That equates to 7.1 bushels of corn to fill a truck. Leaving, take National crop yield per acre of corn at 138 bushels per acre for food and feed usuage. Think about that.

And thats if you just so happen to have a flex fuel vehicle and can actually find E85. Things really start to look bad when you account the amount of fossil fuel generated power that it takes to grow, harvest, and then refine ethanol. And worse than that, when the government decides to take our food and convert it to fuel, world food prices soar.

Every thing on todays market is TRUCKED vs railed in like many years ago. Next time you go by a station or if you drive a diesel truck you know what I'm talking about at over $4:00 per gallon, this expense is going to be passed on to you and me.

And to top it all off, corn based ethanol wouldn't even exist without huge taxpayer subsidies, because its not profitable.

www.exxposeexxon.com/ExxonMobil_politics.html

Check this link in what big OIL is doing to the USofA.
Talk about the biggest scam in American History, and it still continues with them making record profits each quarter.

There may be a future in cellulosic ethanol that can be produced from wood waste products, grass, and algae. But corn based ethanol is a crock and I wish it would go away.

Corn based ethanol is the experimental stage for many new resources that will eventually be coming on-line with renewable fuels. It's corn ethanol that is the quickest and easiest way to start the process of converting sugars and starches to ethanol. Many fields at Universities and Seed Co. are researching switch grasses yield and diseases today.

Anyone looked at how much the oil companies get subsidized? FF thanks for shedding some light on the situation. E-85 in my mind is not the solution, but at least its a short term solution that keeps the money in the U.S. and not in the middle east. With the way our economy and the war in the middle east is going, we should be doing anything possible to keep our money and resource dependency with in the US. with oil over $100/barrel 20% ethanol would keep billions of dollars in the US economy. 2 cents

Dave

The coming thing to be the end all solution, is something we heard about years back...Soilent Green...

"Soylent Green is people!" Charlton Heston

Yes, thanks for the correction, "Soilent Green" is a deathgrind and sludge band out of Louisiana, and whether their spelling is as bad as mine, or to avoid copyright infringement, they were named after the movie Soylent Green, released in 1973, and is one of at least two bands that were similarily named, the other Soilent Grun, was a German punk band,'79-'82, of which two of its members then formed in '87, another punk band "Die Artze", meaning "The Doctors"...

Kind of gruesome to think about how these bands were formed around a people eatin' movie, and their subsequent antics...

In the Movie, set in of all things, 2022 A.D., due to world food shortages, the Government produces first two high energy Vegetable products, from Soy Beans and Lentil, Soylent Red and Soylent Yellow...

Then introduces a new High Energy Plankton wafer, called Soylent Green, which because of its popularity and short supply causes riots, and the encouragement by the Government to choose Early Retirement of the body...and is subsequently found to be Recycled People...

Of course if they had made it Soylent Purple, then the population would have become...Purple People Eaters...

Well 2022 is not that far off, and food problems are just arising...soooo beware of Government food handouts...

MobyRichard
In the Movie, set in of all things, 2022 A.D., due to world food shortages, the Government produces first two high energy Vegetable products, from Soy Beans and Lentil, Soylent Red and Soylent Yellow...

Then introduces a new High Energy Plankton wafer, called Soylent Green, which because of its popularity and short supply causes riots, and the encouragement by the Government to choose Early Retirement of the body...and is subsequently found to be Recycled People...

Of course if they had made it Soylent Purple, then the population would have become...Purple People Eaters...

Well 2022 is not that far off, and food problems are just arising...soooo beware of Government food handouts...


Government food handouts have been in place for many years already. As in food stamps for low income Americans and older people that have put in their dues in the workforce, and are now in retirement homes.
Our children that attend public and private schools are using them as in your school lunch programs that are offered in each state in the USofA.

Three main grain commodities are used in general for food stuff's in making food for you and me. Corn, wheat and rice.
Wheat and rice are no way used in the production of ethanol. So please tell me why food prices are rising due to ethanol?

Here is a link that may help you and me understand that ethanol is not the main reason that our food prices are going up.

http://www.jointherideiowa.com

Farmer

Your misinterpretaion, not mine, the posting you quoted was strictley in regards to Soylent Green, a movie about People being reprocessed into Human Food and passed of as Plankton...

The handouts portion also referred to the movie, and the above, mentioned product, which who knows, they may have already considered, since it was allowed to feed animal parts including sheep brains to cows and sheep, and we know the result...who's to say we won't be considered as sheep...even more than most are now...

Ethanol is not the main reason for price increases, nor the only, but is surley a contributing factor when corn prices have nearly tripled and a feed for say, chickens is mostly derived from said corn, and well, eggs are from chickens, and have nearly tripled in the last year and a half...

Since your so hungry, I'll throw you an ovelooked bone...how much grain of all types, that could be used for Human Consumption, is and has been used over the years to produce Alcohol for Human Consumption instead...and don't forget all the Water and Energy used in that production...

Also fuel/energy costs, and of course all this causes a deflation of the dollars value worldwide, causing the Middle East oil producers to raise prices which are set in US Dollars, and therefore the US, Mexican, and Canadian Producers, which supply 75% of used in the US follow suit, to the extent of charging full world Market Prices to the US...

Many don't know, but a farmer or rancher is forced to sell his livestock at what price is set at that day on the market. He does not set the price for his goods. The packer and processor sets the price for chickens,beef,pork and lamb, etc.. Thank god and the foresight of lawmakers as in state attorney generals in most states, including Iowa, that packers can't retain ownership of livestock. Or you and me would be paying dearly for that next piece of steak or pork loin or chicken at our next meal.



I'm not going hungry at all. Thank you for being so concerned. We send our own pork and buy a heifer off a neighbor to the locker so we know what type of product and packaging we will have for our family. As far as how much grain and fruits is used in a year's time for alcohol and wines would probably shock us all.



I'll agree with that some what and also think about other countries becoming more industrialized, as in China and India as an example. Their consumption for oil the last couple of years has dramatically increase, in doing so are competing for the reserves of oil being produced each year also. Also I and others believe the Oil barrons know that renewable fuels are coming in other countries and want to stick it to us and them while they can. Look at the recent Texas governor's statement about renewable fuels and one wonders if they in the Lone Star State aren't feeling the sting already. I for one am glad that they are feeling the pinch, since they have racked it in profit wise way to long at the expense of you and me at the pumps.

Farmer